Reporting Greg, Saddy, Lolagaf

[RoyGeeBiv]

Your In-Game (RP) Name:RoyGeeBiv

Which staff member are you reporting: Greg, Saddy, Lolagaf

Please describe the staff member's unjust behavior: Greg told me these props were invisible. The player in question was not punished for invisible props, as Greg decided that they were "not invisible".

Next, Saddy and Lolagaf both tell me that Greg's decision stands. The decision in which Greg decided that this prop https://prnt.sc/qz6rx0 was not transparent. 

Here is a link to the player report, in which nothing was done because Greg's decision is final or something. This means because Greg says the prop was not invisible the player was not warned. So maybe revisit that player report instead of trusting Greg. I don't really know, I'm incredibly frustrated that instead of looking at my screenshot I had one mod, and an admin tell me that Greg's decision stands and the player was not warned for the actions. Saddy did however tell me to report Greg if I was still unsatisfied, so here it is.

Please provide any available evidence to back your claims: https://prnt.sc/qz6rx0

[RoyGeeBiv]

Hey I was curious, it seemed like the mods an admins had their hands tied.

"Kahow was banned. Greg was talked to. There is nothing more I can do. If you want to decide how the staff should work than please put an application up. "

First off, I really don't want to be a part of a team where the majority of the people hate me. It's very clear and apparent that this is the case, I've overheard it in conversation between staff members and, I've had tickets ignored because staff don't want to deal with me. Which is funny, I record all of my gameplay and have it ready, it's an easy sit for a staff member to handle.

So no, I wont put my application up. I also don't want to decide how staff should work. Just because I point out very apparent issues in the staffing system does in no way shape or form mean that I want to be a part of the decision on how the staff team should operate.

The thing that sticks out to me is that "There is nothing more I can do". I disagree with that completely.

Here are some suggestions for the things you can do:

• What about warn the player who was breaking the rules? This one is a no brainer in my opinion. The player broke the rule, and Greg didn't punish him. I mean, there is a screenshot right there of the player breaking the rules, it's kinda in plain site and the main focal point of the report, and the complete reason for creating the report in the first place. Instead the focus shifted from the player I was reporting, to myself. I was apparently in the wrong for question Greg's decision respectively on the forums. The focus shifted so much, that the player was never warned.
• What about letting Greg respond to the report, we never got his input on it? 
• What about looking into the root cause of the issue? Why did Greg think this prop was not invisible?
• Handle the report as quick as possible and give no meaningful insight to the player who reported this
• Completely ignore the evidence in the staff report.
• Say Gregs decision is final. 

Instead of using any of those logical steps, you decided "There was nothing more that you could do". It was more important to take the report and move it to handled and not let anyone respond to it.

A player is very clearly breaking the rules. So what do I do about it? Well, here are my steps, tell me at which point I made a mistake.

1. I made a ticket about a player breaking rules in game. What came from it? Nothing
2. Made a player report about the player breaking the rules with a screenshot. What came from it? Nothing
3. I'm now making the staff report, and if nothing comes from this I'm at a complete and utter loss. What even is step 4?

Questions:

Why is Greg's word final, why can't other staff weigh in on it?

What is step 4 if this report goes nowhere like all of my other reports?

How does a player contest the decision of a staff member?

Why was this all so hard on me, why was the burden shifted to me for creating posts, and following formats, just for a simple warn?

Why are staff immune from the rules, unless a player reports them? See here

Does anyone recognize a problem with any of this?

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv

[Greg]

Players don’t really contest the decisions. We try our best to do what’s right. I’ve also had a lengthy conversation with rice and saddy on the state of the way we are scared of making blatant decisions like such you mentioned for this very reason ironically. You put a lot of effort into this so I think you really deserve a decent perspective from us. Give me a call on discord some time tomorrow and ill give you my side of the story man.

[Greg]

I would also like to include lolagaf did what he could and we did confirm that his props were shitty and transparent. The main reason I didnt warn him straight away was so I could catch him doing something bigger.

[RoyGeeBiv]

9 minutes ago, Greg said:

I would also like to include lolagaf did what he could and we did confirm that his props were shitty and transparent. The main reason I didnt warn him straight away was so I could catch him doing something bigger.

You told me "The props are translucent, not transparent" and then  flew away.

[Greg]

Well, they technically were. I wasnt any more happy than you lol

[RoyGeeBiv]

Greg, you might benefit from googling the word translucent. You also might benefit from listening to the reporting player, instead of flying away, since the reporting player called the sit for a reason, and can probably assist you in understanding the problem

Edited February 8, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv

[Greg]

I thought I made it clear I was handling him for those past 30 minutes?

[RoyGeeBiv]

No, you really didn't make that clear. You slightly hinted at it when you tped to me stating "Kahow is doing invisible prop things again". What really made it unclear, was when you said "Well it's translucent" and flew away seconds after stating that. In my time playing that day, he was not warned kicked or banned for that reason. I was on for nearly an hour after calling the ticket. Nothing about that was clear that he was getting warned for any of those reasons.

[Greg]

I was busy. And just so you know, I warned him multiple times that day. Apologies for not making that “clear”, but I handled him and the tickets that were made on him that entire time. What do you suggest I do in the future and I can let you know if I already decided or have been working on that or not. Sorry my time is limited, I try my best, especially as a volunteer.

[RoyGeeBiv]

You can't have it both ways. Staff can't be busy, and rush sits and not give them their full attention, and on the other hand not allow player dispute their rushed decisions.

Frankly, all I wanted was for you to listen to my side of the story. Instead you rushed in, made a mistake (Everyone makes mistakes, and I don't fault them for that) I personally think the sit could have been resolved, if you hung around for maybe 45 seconds after concluding that the prop was "translucent" I think we could have had a discussion and you would have realized that the props are actually transparent and violate the rules.

Why did you even take my sit and pretend to care for 30 seconds, and instantly leave. At that point, don't even come to me. From what I've learned, it's really hard to dispute something, even if it's very blatantly wrong. You came to me, and rushed the sit, which in turn made an irrefutable decision that was upheld by multiple staff members and prevented my player report from being handled.

I'm sorry Greg, this report isn't really directly meant to report you. It's more about the process man. I disagreed with your decision about not warning the guy, and your verdict that the props were translucent. That's all I really cared about.

That's why I made the player report. I wanted another staff member to review it. Instead I was told I had to report you for making a wrong decision. I really just wanted a second opinion on the report and for you to possibly learn something from the other staff member that handled said player report.

[Greg]

I came to you because I honestly didn't see what your sit was about. When I figured that out, I went back to spectating him. I appreciate your enthusiasm to help, but I do not respect your assumptions or assertions about me or the situation. Two other staff members DID review it AFTER he was banned which you were ADVOCATING for. I fail to see what the issue is in regards to the others or what you are trying to gain by pointing out all of these trivial things. Just because we don’t tell you what we go over, doesn’t mean we never did anything.

 

tldr: you dont even know what the process is

Edited February 8, 2020 by Greg

[RoyGeeBiv]

Ok Greg. The props are translucent. You didn't make a mistake Greg. Greg is right

trans·lu·cent - (of a substance) allowing light, but not detailed shapes, to pass through; semitransparent.

No mistakes, No rushing("I was busy. " and only spending 30 seconds in my sit)

The staff didn't review anything Greg. They clearly stated that "Whatever Greg's Decision is, is final" Look at the report again. They didn't look into the issue at all, they essentially just said "Well Greg was there, it was handled" The player didn't get warned for it later, he was banned for different reasons and apparently that's supposed to suffice and make my report invalid or unimportant?

I might not "Know what the process is" but I'm fairly certain it's not about rushing sits, and denying mistakes. It's also not about clearly upholding wrong decisions.

Also the whole "Waiting too catch him doing worse stuff"? What the hell? Shouldn't staff try to prevent him from doing worse stuff? I don't know maybe warning him for the small thing that are clearly happening instead letting him continue his bullshit for hours and in the process make sure you handle sits and do nothing about them? What about this is a good idea?

Edited February 8, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv

[Greg]

People don’t say my name or trust me just because I’m a staff member. They do that out of respect for how I handle situations. I’m not just some washed up hack. You use my name in a derogatory sense yet claim I am the one who’s not listening to your reports. It’s precisely the way reports can be twisted and snaked like this is the reason we don’t make split decisions during cases. Imagine if the guy I banned had this much tenacity in his reports. Frankly, that’s not something I am willing to deal with and for the record, we’ve spent HOURS talking about this Roy Gee Biv.

[RoyGeeBiv]

People say your name, because it's your name

[RoyGeeBiv]

I'm not twisting anything. What did I say that was false?

Edited February 8, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv

[Greg]

You took me leaving your “sit” actually your “ticket”, prematurely according to you, to come up with this elaborate thread to, not to be mistaken with coming up with solutions (opened arms to vc tomorrow), but to complain that things didn’t go your way. If we are both being honest here, I was working to moderate the community.

moderate:

“make or become less extreme, intense, rigorous, or violent.“

I’m sorry you were not the highlight of my time in trying to uphold the very definition of moderation, but you are clearly NOT here to come up with solutions. You’ve been nothing but derogatory and expect something else back. 
 

I think that classifies as false information on your part.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Greg

[RoyGeeBiv]

What? Literally all I've done is try to rectify something that I saw was wrong. I don't care if things don't go my way. I care if things are done correctly. At no point was I trying to be derogatory. Not being able to take legitimate criticism, doesn't mean the other person is trying to be rude. Especially when the the criticism is with good intentions.

Edited February 8, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv

[RoyGeeBiv]

Please shift you attention to the real issue. Remember the player I was trying to report for breaking the rules?

Edited February 8, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv

[Lolagaf]

This is the only input I am putting here. I spoke with Greg about the issue. Told him his mistake etc. For me, a player breaking an invisible prop warn is never more than a verbal. Or just change it my myself. Since I was not on the server at the time, I could not give him a verbal. I did what I could, by talking to greg about his mistake. Kahow was also banned for later infractions, so he was eventually dealt with. Also, not by me, as I was not on the server. 

[RoyGeeBiv]

4 hours ago, Lolagaf said:

This is the only input I am putting here. I spoke with Greg about the issue. Told him his mistake etc. For me, a player breaking an invisible prop warn is never more than a verbal. Or just change it my myself. Since I was not on the server at the time, I could not give him a verbal. I did what I could, by talking to greg about his mistake. Kahow was also banned for later infractions, so he was eventually dealt with. Also, not by me, as I was not on the server. 

Alright, here's my response to your input. You recognized Greg made a mistake from my player report, correct? How come that was never stated? Instead you simply said "It is up to the moderator's discretion to decide on these things. If that is what he decided, then there ya go. " I'm fairly certain that you wanted that topic to end there, and didn't want further discussion. That's frustrating to me as a player. To me when you say "If that is what he decided, then there ya go", you're asking me to accept Greg's incorrect decision. That's just wrong, because no person with their head on straight is going to blindly believe an incorrect decision. I really have a problem with that. I have a problem that instead of you recognizing and responding to the mistake that Greg made in the report, you shifted the focus to shutting me down in a sense, and telling me that Greg's decision was final. (Remember Greg's decision was that a clearly transparent prop, was translucent.)

Kahow, was using the invisible props to his advantage, he was baiting people to jump in his house, and then would close the rolling garage door, and shoot them. He wasn't  a confused player who was misusing or confused regarding the invisible props. He was doing so maliciously , a moderators job is to recognize when a player is legitimately confused, or if the player is breaking the rules knowingly and with malicious intent. I totally agree that verbals should be used when a player is unaware of the rules, or if the player is new, or if it's a genuine mistake. To say that a certain rule is "Always a verbal" is a little much. Moderators should be adaptive. I think this is certainly a case where Greg would for sure have been able to recognize Kahow's intent, and if Greg knew the translucent/transparent at the time he likely would have given Kahow a warning.

I understand that Kahow was later banned for separate infractions. That has nothing to do with my report. Quit telling me he was eventually dealt with. He was dealt with for different reasons, and this report was never dealt with correctly. I really don't care about his separate infractions, it doesn't justify not warning him for this one. You can still warn banned players right?

Edited February 8, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv

[Saddy]

Hello Roy, thank you for creating a report. I am not Greg’s admin, and therefore won’t be handling this report, but my name is listed. The reason we want you to create a staff report is that we can only work with what you present to us on the forums. There was clearly another staff member there who decided to deal with the situation in a different way. This could be due to talking with the player, evidence not shown, having the base fixed, etc. If you want a second opinion on a rule breaker, we do not want you to create a player report since they have already been handled; no double jeopardy. I agree the message could of been clearer and I tried to edit post facto to make it such. If you are still unsatisfied with the handling of the player report, feel free to reply here or contact me directly @ Saddy#4781

 

[RoyGeeBiv]

Will the player ever face judgement for this issue? Or will we continue to play ring around the Rosie and avoid the very nature of my original report?

Like I said in my original report, and this one. The player was never punished for the invisible props. It's not really double jeopardy if the Mod was unaware of the rule in the first place. Greg marked it off as "Ohhhh there's nothing I can do, those are translucent". I just want someone else to view the evidence, and make a decision different than the original. Why do you make it so hard?

Edited February 11, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv

[Greg]

I banned him.

 

what else do you want from me

[RoyGeeBiv]

Quote

Kahow was later banned for a seperate infraction

I want him punished for this infraction. Not a separate infraction, and I want you to take more time in your sits. Also I'd appreciate a more serious tone in a staff report.

Edited February 11, 2020 by RoyGeeBiv